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  1.  
    San, anyone else? Do you see the dead thread?
  2.  
    ok, pm sent.

    sorry for doign so without unanimous approval but i was hoping the day could start ebfore i get back from work. That might buy me a little cover....but i expect to die tonight if TP is who we think he is.
  3.  
    nsidestrate:San, anyone else? Do you see the dead thread?


    I do not with frankenstein...I havent checked my other profile.
  4.  
    I haven't checked and I won't.

    Happy with TP for NK.

    I suspect that the vig, if there is one may well take a shot at me tonight. If so, I hope bb or fojar gets crowned sometime soon. We may to make a sacrifice at some point, San.
  5.  
    I'm already trying to think up a good way of giving you guys cover from my death. It's a lot trickier with the kingmaker scenario.

    I think it unlikely that any of us gets appointed king tomorrow. My bet is it'll be nut.
  6.  
    btw TRK I think you need to go on teh attack tomorrow. Defend yourself aggressively saying you didn't want people to overly rely on you as the king, saying you felt it was better to gauge the town.

    Think of a few people to call mafia and do it. Make one of them me - there's going to be a strong case for it.
  7.  
    What do you think of me revealing? Maybe as vig?
  8.  
    Dead!
  9.  
    f.f.s.

    THAT did not go as planned.
  10.  
    I'm going to take sollace from teh fact that he was some kinf of special. :angry:
  11.  
    One thing i have noticed is that ITH games do not pay enough attention to the reason teh dead guy got killed.

    Hopefully there will be analysis that it could be a kill to cast suspicions on me...sicne he wasnt a det i shouldnt be in quite as much danger as i was before, but we'll see
  12.  
    BTW....Wynton, what evidence was posted - i.e. mainly is tehre a chacne that people will now know one of us is mobbed up? :confused:
  13.  
    I really need to start posting all my thoguhts in one coherent post instead of a running monologue...

    I like how the vigi's bullet was referred to as his "Sole" bullet. At least he cant go about killing us willy nilly from now on. Shame he actually got a mafioso.

    Anyway, how are you two looking - anyone suspicious of yous so far?
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Frankenstein:BTW....Wynton, what evidence was posted - i.e. mainly is tehre a chacne that people will now know one of us is mobbed up? :confused:


    Posted where? Not sure what you're talking about.
  14.  
    YOUR MOD IS AN IDIOT AND IS EDITING THIS POST TO REMOVE THE EVIDENCE.


    or is this evidence that you're an idiot as opposed to evidence as to teh game itself?

    Ok i've satisfied myself as to what was going on. I am still going to ask it in teh game thread of course of course.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Oh, the idiot comment: All that happened there is that I made a comment about what would happen if the Kingmaker chose an ineligible player for king, totally forgetting that everyone (who is alive) can be king. Nothing was revealed about anyone in particular.

    So, yes, it was merely evidence of my idiocy, nothing more.
  15.  
    Thinking some more...

    I think one of you should come out with an absoloutely rip roaring DEFENCE of me.

    Mafia players hardly ever say they are certain the other one is innocent.

    Me likey :)
  16.  
    ...actually so far nobody has said tp kill = san suspicious.

    Think i'll wait to see the lay of the land for a bit before going on my nightly posting marathon....back home btw.

    PS these are the mafia monologues of a madman
  17.  
    ROFL...

    did the detective not get a N0 investigation in this game?

    Folks we are dolts. :bigsmile::bigsmile:
  18.  
    new crap read of the day.

    Wade = possible det, based ont eh fact he knew the detective wouldnt have had a n0 investigation. It didn't occur to any of us so why the hell would it occur to wade?
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    San (and anyone else here):

    I truly did screw up with the Vig thing, and I am asking Nside and others for the fairest way to fix it. I intended to give the Vig the power to kill only one time (because that is how we always did it), but in the copy and paste process from another game I mistakenly gave him power to do it repeatedly.
  19.  
    Wow thats a shame, but I don't know how to fix it.

    I'm assuming the only reason he decided to kill was because he had more than one bullet, but I'm not sure how to fix it? Maybe mod-kill him (although that's obviously not fair). Give us an extra kill?

    I'm not going to hold it against you that much either way, honest mistakes happen.
  20.  
    Now if someone could give me some inno points for bringing it up.

    and if someone could hurt me in here for it :devil:
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Sorry guys, I made the ruling that Vig could continue as indicated in the initial instructions. The truth is that, whatever my intent, the Vig may have reasonably relied (and probably did rely) upon the language I used. And at the same time, no one else could be said to have relied upon my unstated intent.

    I hope this doesn't make the game unbalanced, but on the other hand, if it does, the real error was made when I copied and pasted earlier.

    I suppose it's also possible that you all will end up benefiting, if the Vig starts killing off innocents.

    I haven't had a chance to speak to Nside for advice about this, but I thought it was important to make a decision sooner than later. If he (or any other neutral party) persuades me that further corrective action is needed to make things fairer, I'll let you know.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Frankenstein:Now if someone could give me some inno points for bringing it up.

    and if someone could hurt me in here for it :devil:


    It would be the ironies of ironies if you ended up getting trust because of this episode.
  21.  
    I'm going to use this to gain some serious inno points, mehopes.
  22.  
    San, which post? I'll give you inno points.
  23.  
    The Invisible Man:San, which post? I'll give you inno points.


    Sorry, the one where I brought up that the vig's pm implied he could kill anyone.
    I'd rather an inno said it, but frankly i think we're struggling right now and we need each one of us to look as clean as possible today. Easier said than done ofc.
  24.  
    San's special-o-meter

    Wade = detective??????
    Fumseck or Nutjob = Vigi??
  25.  
    If anyone has any insights as to who the KM might be, I would love to buddy up to him right now.

    I cannot stand this whole one inno with all the power routine. Mobsters are supposed to have the power. dammit.
  26.  
    *rant*

    So, in this game


    -we have a vigilante who can kill us any night, so we cant claim vigi
    -we cant claim detective because we should die that night
    -we probably cant claim hero because he's dead but might do it as a desperation play.
    -we have an unknown number of innocent specials who may form a strong circle of trust before long,
    -we were unclear on the rules and thought the det had a n0 investigation, which has screwed us up in terms of the town's leading suspects

    We're basically in serious trouble. If we can make an endgame I fancy our chances. But that is currently a big if.
  27.  
    I wonder if detective wade investigated TRK last night?

    Wade Said:

    Vig - I kinda wanted TRK around today to get info out of. Not sure I agree 100%, but nice shot.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Frankenstein:*rant*

    So, in this game


    -we have a vigilante who can kill us any night, so we cant claim vigi


    I know, that is one reason I regret accidentally giving the vig that power.
  28.  
    well i have an idea of how to get rid of the vigi, but it involves us 100% losing the game

    i hate to be a bummer but i am not feeling very hopeful.

    :( :( :(

    wynton should let us recruit one player. of our choice.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    I am considering a twist that might even things out a little, but I need to talk it through with Nside.

    Keep in mind that, while the whole Vig thing was accidental, it can't really be said to be "unfair." For the resolution is merely adhering to the rules as announced. And if I had not screwed up a post discussing the Vig's action, no one would even have known that the setup was a result of my mistake.

    Still, I'm going to sollicit some views as to whether there is another step I can take to ensure that the game is competitive. The thing is I want to make that determination based upon the inherent setup of the game, rather than upon an assessment of the way the votes and deaths have been occurring. In other words, I'm considering whether, had I knownn at the outset that the Vig had the continual power to kill, would I have done something else too.

    I'll let you know as soon as I can.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    Alright, I have canvassed a few people and they unanimously felt that anything I could do now would be a bad idea, be unfair and make things worse. So, you'll have to just play along these parameters.

    If it's any consolation, I view this game almost like a test run of the kingmaker version of mafia. Considering our lack of experience with this format - particularly mine - it was probably unrealistic to expect that we would happen on the fairest, most balanced version. And several people still believe that this format is pretty fair, so who knows?

    Anyway, I apologize again for the confusion and encourage you to do your best, notwithstanding any structural problems of the game. We'll get it right next time (if people haven't soured on kingmaker altogether).
  29.  
    I think we're doomed. I am already considering a desperation play and it is only day two....and I don't even thin that works.

    The thing is if this was a regular game I'd be fairly content. An all mafia slate has a good nack of confusing the town as we've seen in the past.

    At this juncture, we just have no chance. We are going to be down to one member at the start of day 3, almost certainly...and it is porbably going to be me, who will never make an engame, especially when he's under this much suspicion, and if that does happen what are the odds the det investigates me tonight?

    So basically, the only way we dont auto lose tomorrow in the most probable scenario tonight is if wade is the det, because I'm probably NKing him.
  30.  
    If one of you tow could turn up and start making useful posts, taht might help your cause a little....pretty please :neutral:
  31.  
    BTW I do not think the game strucutre was overly unfair.

    My complaints would simply be:

    We were under the impression there had been a det investigation on n0. That screwed us more than words can describe.

    The vigi thing.

    That's about it. As I said in the sign up thread I don'tm ind being experimented on :smile:
  32.  
    ...oh and all 4 of us have played awfully.
  33.  
    Anyway...readometer:

    Det: Wade?

    Vigi: Nut or wes?
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    San,

    I appreciate you being a good sport. I actually don't think the rules, as stated, were misleading about the lack of an investigation on night one, For the announcement was that we were beginning with dawn.

    Once this is over, I hope everyone takes some time to discuss the pros and cons of the kingmaster version, along with a couple of particular choices I made that were at least optional: i.e., starting with dawn, rather than night; not disclosing the number of specials and bad guys; and the actual distribution of specials.
  34.  
    Really I think teh game was reasonably balanaced. The det thing was our own fault. The only real issue is the vigi thing, and in truth that only became an issue when you posted that teh vigi had used his "sole" bullet.

    We just suck.
  35.  
    ...I do still stand by the statement that the endgame (not that we're making it) is broken. My analysis in the gamethread on all that was entirely genuine as i was trying to work it out, and i cant...at least not to a level where i'm confident about the answer.
  36.  
    I need to start metagaming when I'm inno...I dont seem to have the ability to mimick my inno self as mafia.

    It might be something thatNut admits to when he's mobbed up - I cant build up the will or spirit to start hunting through the thread for clues, beyond looking for special clues. and at this point in time, even that seems a bit pointless.
  37.  
    Fojar...since I see you browsing I am begging you to get heavily involved.

    pretty please :sad:
  38.  
    Wynton:Alright, I have canvassed a few people and they unanimously felt that anything I could do now would be a bad idea, be unfair and make things worse. So, you'll have to just play along these parameters.

    If it's any consolation, I view this game almost like a test run of the kingmaker version of mafia. Considering our lack of experience with this format - particularly mine - it was probably unrealistic to expect that we would happen on the fairest, most balanced version. And several people still believe that this format is pretty fair, so who knows?

    Anyway, I apologize again for the confusion and encourage you to do your best, notwithstanding any structural problems of the game. We'll get it right next time (if people haven't soured on kingmaker altogether).


    the only way the mafia can win this game is if the humans all commit suicide.

    that or the vigi kills any other specials there might be this game, and only humans from now on.

    not very likely.
  39.  
    maybe defend bb HARD, no wishy washy stuff, just say he shouldnt be lynched for having real life commitments, since that's whats happened to you.

    God willing the vigi realizes when one of you gets assainated that that reduces the chances of the other one being mobbed.
  40.  
    i'm gonna post soon

    i've been busy.

    this afternoon i'll post up a storm
  41.  
    We are not out of it. You two are primarily suspects for being low liers. If you spend 3 hours posting we have an outside chance.