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  1.  
    Urgh.

    I do not like the way this conversation is going, based on a quick read I dont think we can win....and it's purely down to game structure.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    I think you guys are doomed, too. But there's always the chance that the town will simply screw up the process somehow.

    I look forward to the post-game discussion about how the structure could be improved.
  2.  
    I am seriously pissed off about this.

    We have no outs beyond a stupid argument that says:

    "ah but KT can't be appointed...now if she's in a list of three that could really screw you if the otehr two mafia are close together".

    It's so weak I can't possibly post it. It'd make me obvious.

    :confused:
  3.  
    Hang on...let's think this through.

    bbw
    bb88
    BD
    Cyb
    JaneG
    KT - Cannot be king
    Pizza
    Pie
    San

    Nope, it's no use...we'd ahve an out if Jane was king. We do not with KT, unless the KM is BD. If the kingmaker is BD, we have an out.
  4.  
    Kingmaker cant appoint bbw as kingmaker, because wes appoitns bb88a s king. Although even then, bb's trapped into having to execute me....but i am inclined to think any KM would want to avoid a mafia king. so

    if BD is kingmaker, town lynches him. We kill cyb. Thus janeG becomes kingmaker, but now Pizza becomes king. IS that an out?

    Not really. Jane claims KM and KT does not counter. What happened becomes obvious.

    bbw
    bb88
    janeg
    kt
    pizza
    pie
    san

    No, it's no use. We lose on game structure. period. I don't want any points awarded in the mafia league for this one.

    :devil:
  5.  
    Actually that's our prayer - if the KM somehow cocks this up and appoints wes the kingmaker, because he REALLY wants to get mne gone, then bb88 becomes a known inno.

    We are so screwed.
  6.  
    I seriously completely and utterly demand the right to be crowned kingmaker.

    Or that the new kingmaker be appointed by RNG.

    or. or. or.

    ahhh f*** it, off to the pub.
  7.  
    HAng on a horse shoe, says san

    What IF there are 3 mafia?
  8.  
    If there are three mafia then it no longer holds true to say that there are three people guaranteed to follow in teh list, and the presence of the king would really screw them.

    Is it worth any kind of a shot at my sauying it? yeah why not...sod it, see where it goes.
  9.  
    BTW I'm going to be "incredibly" busy at work today (not for real this time ofc)
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    San,

    Just imagine your glory if you pull this one out.
  10.  
    Not going to happen.

    I was imagining my glory pulling it back from day 2. That was impossible.

    This is just unfathomable.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    Would it help if I recite the St. Crispin's Day speech for you?
  11.  
    I guess it is me who ahs to pull it out though, seeing as using their system bb gets executed tomorrow.

    and cyb, BD and KT/jane become known innos. Well I guess KT already is one. So...

    tomorrow looks something like this:

    bbw
    bb88
    BD
    cyb
    janeg
    kt
    pizza - kingmker? lynched
    pie
    san

    So which one of this lot do we kill tonight? We already know KT is a known inno, so we take out one of the other three above her to give us half a chance. I guess that simply has to be cyb.

    so tomorrow looks like this:

    bbw
    bb88 - known mafia
    BD - kingmaker
    janeg - king
    kt - known inno
    pie
    san

    Town kill bb...I'm left with this:

    bbw
    BD - kingmaker
    janeg - king
    kt - known inno
    pie
    san

    I kill Jane - known inno has to go. Town now looks like this:

    bbw
    BD - kingmaker
    kt - known inno
    pie
    san

    BD has to choose king. hmmmmm.

    Not completely dead and buried.
  12.  
    BD surely has to pick KT there, right? If he went for pie at that point I would presume I was a gonner, but KT is easier.
  13.  
    actually that's not true. They might want the mafia to be king there, back at ABCDE's again....i just knew it would get down to that.

    Hang on...the town can win tomorrow can't they.

    IF they don't lynch bb88 and play rinse and repeat, i.e. lycnh teh new km, the new KM appoints whoever's under my name kingmaker, and we're in the same boat. Ah bugger.

    Let's hope we can kill cyb before he clicks onto that.
  14.  
    back to the BD ahs to choose king point...If I kill KT and keep Queen Jane, that forces BD to pick a king from teh unknowns. I just don't know if that's preferable or not, and besides which teh game is over by then if they do teh same thing tomorrow.
  15.  
    No...wait, teh town can't risk the lock win because of the possibility of three mafia. They probably have to take out bb88 tomorrow. thank god.
  16.  
    Pizza.

    You're an ass.

    Sincerely

    San.

    *insert compulsory safety wink here* :wink:
  17.  
    ...luckily. there's a way around that. I'll let the rest of them point out to him that that could put a mobster in the known inno list.
  18.  
    ....and would, in fact.
  19.  
    Now if BD is actually kingmaker, that puts me in a quandry because killing cyb makes pizza a known inno. Do I want to do that?
  20.  
    Pie:

    disagree. Depending on how the next 2 days pan out, I think we would be at least 75/25 in most scenarios.


    At Least. At an abslute bare minimum.

    Please god make my life a bit easier and make one of pie or cyb the kingmaker. They're not, but just make it so anyway.
  21.  
    BTW what's wrong with this game structure is that the kingmaker should also be the hero.

    The king should not be able to kill the kingmaker. And the king should not be able to kill himself.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    You might be right about that.
  22.  
    BD wrote:

    Side bet on my innocence, Pizza?


    I want him slain. Right now. It is well accepted that serious offers of sidebets cannot be made in our games. This one did not have a safety wink and so should be cosntrued as serious. BD should be slain.
  23.  
    ...and the kingmaker should not be able to choose the next kingmaker. It should be RNG.
  24.  
    and can we get a new ruling for the start of tomorrow - no more of this kill the km nonsense so that we can have half a chance at a proper ending - ie next km decided by rng from now on?
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    San,

    Step out of your role for a second, if it's possible, and help me make an objective decision about BD.

    I noticed that side bet thing and immediately realized this was a violation. But I don't know if there is a precedent for a particular punishment. And frankly, I'm not sure whether a punishment (such as killing him) would necessarily benefit you.

    The last thing I want to do is inadvertently hurt you by punishing BD. Are you sure what you want to happen to BD?

    I'm asking the same question of others, by the way.
  25.  
    convert someone to mob then.

    Or make deciding the next km an RNG....thatd punish him nicely.

    I cant work throug whether losing one inno helps or hinders me...perhaps i could with someone to obounce of fin the dead thread.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    San,

    The punishments you mention would amount to telling everyone his role, wouldn't they?
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    I just told him to stop posting, at least temporarily, while I thought about it.
  26.  
    Then convert him to a serial killer and don;t tell anyone.

    :neutral:
  27.  
    I can't be objective about this so i suggest you listen to nside. I think he should die and take another inno with him.
  28.  
    What the hell did I miss???
  29.  
    San: Yes or no.

    Do I reveal I'm NOT the KM?
  30.  
    You don't want to know. We are basically screwed.
  31.  
    I say we NK me.

    That would throw them off.
  32.  
    oh yeah reveal that. then say you're very pro the km revealing. then come back in here and cry with me.
  33.  
    If we nk you, they know i'm mafia tomorrow. sadly.
  34.  
    I'm going to figure us something out San.

    If it comes down to me hacking into KT's computer, lynching Pie and editing her own post for suicide, I'm going to do it.

    PS: Just kidding when you read this (which apparently might be soon) KT.
  35.  
    All I saw was San/bb88 are mafia and I thought hey that's kind of weird.
  36.  
    Essentially, our best bet right now is for wynton to take the line that BD's violation should be severely punished by taking another inno with hi, I do not think one inno dying helps our predicament.
  37.  
    The Invisible Man:All I saw was San/bb88 are mafia and I thought hey that's kind of weird.


    Tehy dont know that....thaat was a pure chance

    they still ahv eno diea,, but they have a lock on knowing one of us and three of them tomorrow.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    Wait a second guys.
  38.  
    I'm confused to hell so I'm waiting for sure.
  39.  
    Their plan is essentially to kill the KM tonight, then have him appoint the next kingmaker in an alphabetical fashion, being the person directly below a mafia. Because of the way the numbers are working out they have three known innos and a mafia from that one play.
    • CommentAuthorWynton
    • CommentTimeNov 5th 2007
     
    About BD's sanction:

    I am asking around. My gut reaction is that this is pretty minor and that the appropriate sanction, if any, is just to suspend his posting right for a while.

    But one thing that did occur to me as a sanction was preventing him from being named King for a day. The problem is that, not only might that be disproportionate, I'm not sure if it hurts you.

    I'm asking for your views because I really don't want to make things any worse for you by mistake. (This doesn't mean that I'll go along with you, though.)
  40.  
    Frankenstein:Their plan is essentially to kill the KM tonight, then have him appoint the next kingmaker in an alphabetical fashion, being the person directly below a mafia. Because of the way the numbers are working out they have three known innos and a mafia from that one play.


    That's genius and also terribly unfair.
  41.  
    I guess you just told us he's not the KM then.