I believe that there is a fool-proof strategy for the innocents. It revolves around the KingMaker.

The KM should reveal himself and ask the King to kill him. He should then provide a list like this:

TARGET
bbwes Cyb JaneG Nutjob San TRK
bb88 Fojar KT Pizza SJ Wade
BD Fumseck MX Piemaster TP

--------------

ALL THE SAME:
San SJ TP Nutjob Pizza Piemaster TRK Wade

==============================================

This will allow the dead KM to "investigate" three players (or more) at once. In my example, he is "investigating" bbwes, bb88 and BD. If only of the list of three is eligible to be KM (that is to say, is NOT a special), the KM will name him as the new KM. So, if the new KM is bb88, everyone knows that bbwes and BD are specials. If only one of the three IS a special, the KM will choose the first eligible player from the list that follows him. If bb88 is the only special in the list, he will name Fojar as the new KM. If Fojar is special, he will name KT as the new KM. If KT is named the new KM, the town will know that bb88 and Fojar are special and that KT, bbwes and BD are innos. If none of the three are special, he will choose the first available name from the "ALL THE SAME" list. If ALL of the three are special, he will choose the LAST available name from the "ALL THE SAME" list.

Some people equate to two possible outcomes. If Piemaster is named the new KM, EITHER (1) BD, Fumseck and MX are special + bbwes and bb88 are innos or (2) bbwes, bb88, BD, Wade and TRK are specials. You lynch bbwes or bb88 and you know which is the case.

This will result in an early exposure or death to the inno specials, but it doesn't matter.

Hi to the newly dead.

Reading the game thread makes me realize that algebra was never my strong suit.

Wynton:Nside,

Would increasing the number of innocent specials to a certain point ruin your strategy? If so, when?

I think so. Although I think it still might work, but it would call for a mass reveal. The only real solution is a random assignment of the KingMaker, I think.

Hello all.

WTF is going on? I can't believe the mafia bumped me off, I was the most suspicious in most people's eyes - unless most of those people saying that were the mafia.

TP,

Look at what Wade said. He said that the mob probably thought you were a special for the same reasons you appeared suspicious to others.

Does that mean that you also thought TRK was obviously dirty, but preferred keeping him around for the sake of information?

One wonders why TRK didn't elect to kill you himself last night. It would have looked less suspicious than hitting SJ, I think.

Wynton:So who's more likely to win at this point?

I think the innos look to have the edge here right now.

What do you guys think of keeping the number of mafia and special innocents unknown? Does it alter the odds in any appreciable way?

Suppose we had a definite number of mobsters, but unknown special innocents, or the other way around?

Some games they don't reveal the role of dead players either. Very confusing.

nsidestrate:Some games they don't reveal the role of dead players either. Very confusing.

I said that in the sign up thread. I think it's only the night kills that aren't revealed, lynches are revealed as normal. I quite like this idea, as it really makes for some interesting reveals. Often the town is forced to lynch the detective, just to find out if he's real or not.

Anyone else here? Speak up, I'll ask you guys too.

This sucks, because I'm afraid that I have to abide by my original declaration to let Vig strike each night. But the truth is that I'm afraid it might favor the innocents too much.

That was a truly shit first day from me.

I genuinely had lots on at work and I was a bit more motivated to beat Bull in the CakeRake challenge. Add to that 40-odd pages and you get a very suspicious looking TRK.

Great move by the KM to pick me as first day King.
Even better by the vig to kill me.

I think there could be some very very strong specials about.

The only thing that could really save the game for us is a bit of luck and a sacrifice.

I've asked nside this privately, but I might as well ask you guys here too, despite the fact you may or may not objective.

As I mentioned before, I gave the Vig power to shoot nightly - as opposed to a single time - accidentally, the result of carelessly cutting and pasting. So, here are my questions:

(1) With the Vig having this continual power, is the structure of this game too heavily weighted to the innocents?

(2) If it is too heavily weighted in their favor, should I do something about it? Even before all this started, I was toying with the idea of forcing an innocent to change sides (but not allowing the mob to pick the turncoat). I was leaning against doing this, because I personally don't like such switcheroos, when there is no hint in the rules that they might happen. But maybe this would make the game more fair.

Note, I certainly don't think it's right to do this based upon votes or the discussion. The only justification for doing this is because the game setup is fundamentally flawed and unfair.

(3) On the other hand, because this entire kingmaker structure is new to all of us, maybe it's better just to let it play out so we can all learn how to set it up better in the future.

All suggestions appreciated.

Regarding the Vig. I honestly don't know how the balance is affected. I'm not very good at thinking about that sort of stuff.

I don't think you should change anything now, Wynton.

An interesting possibilty would be to give the Vig his own victory condition to be the last man standing, but I don't think it's fair to change things now.

I think Wade is the Vig at this moment in time by the way.

I think the mafia are toast. Interestingly, I think that the game is probably slightly unbalanced in their favor, but it has gone terribly.

If nothing else, I think we should have an interesting discussion about pros/cons of this format afterwards.

If the mafia can salvage victory here, it will be quite impressive.

Hey, can you guys confirm something for me. This question may have come up in other games, and I want to be prepared.

If the Vig uses his bullet one night, and the very same night the mob decides to night kill him, does the Vig's bullet still work?

First one to catch the grenade dies.

I've just read the last page of the thread alone - something tells me this could be the easiest inno victory ever - even more so than game 1.

nsidestrate:First one to catch the grenade dies.

What's the grenade? I haven't caught up yet.

therivierakid:I've just read the last page of the thread alone - something tells me this could be the easiest inno victory ever - even more so than game 1.

They must be on the right track then, eh?