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  1.  
    janeg:I'm pleasantly surprised I'm dead. The hit looks like Wes but I wonder. San was very one sided about Cyb and he's now taking the same approach with Fojar. What I can't figure, is if he's mobbed, why has he left Bugs out there? For the challenge? And same if it's Bugs, why leave San out there?



    There's always going to be a list of hierarchies for the Mafia's choice of NKs in any game and sometimes the big dogs (even when Inno) can slip through the nets for a few days as a result. Getting rid of the known inno (jane) comes first. Especially when you consider that any big dog that makes it through to the final day will arouse suspicion as a result. Forget what Bud Light says about Drinkability....it's all about Lynchability. As for the night I got hit, I really gave thew some heat in the final minutes (the day I and others voted Cyb down) and I'm wondering if I shot toward the high regions of thew's NK list. If so then, you and I were higher priorities for specific reasons than Bugs/San.
  2.  
    Also, if San is the one that is mobbed, you have been more vocal about voicing suspicion of San than Bugs has. The moment yesterday when you pushed back at him and said, "Are you clairvoyant ? The man in charge ? You've been running the show pretty well so far, gotta give you that." - that would tend to stick out in his mind if he is in the mob.
  3.  
    wade:
    cyb:The fixation with the idea that people might or might not be playing in their "normal innocent style" or "normal mafia style" worries me.

    The main difference between mafia and innocents is that one group has two chances to get rid of people. The only team who might even know who their team mate is are the 2 wolves, and we don't even know if they exist. And if they do, then almost certainly neither of them started as a wolf.

    I just don't see why anyone would be all that self-conscious about being mafia in this game.


    I agree 100% there Cyb. With 3 mafia alive they might have to be at least a little bit careful about not appearing too innocent or risk being a NK target. But with only 2 left there is no way they can mathematically NK each other, so they are free to post, well freely.


    I'll have to respectfully disagree, gentlemen, especially for a first time mafia player and thew92 is a classic case in point. When you're inno you know that there are some enemies out there and when you find reasons to be suspicious of another player you believe that they're very likely to be true. When you're in thew's position, though, with only one ally, you know that the majority of the suspicious comments that you make concerning other players in the game are going to be bogus.

    It's very difficult to put the same oomph behind the thrusts you make toward other players when you sincerely believe them to be true and when you're just posturing in the thread to appear to others that you are innocent (especially without the experience of having been in the position before). Having watched thew as much as I have, I thought I noticed a difference.

    Having said that, I expect thew to come along and say....No, Pizza, I really was just busy at work.:tongue:

    But myself, jane, prolly TRK and some others ...have demonstrated that our personas are somewhat stifled as mafia. (KT, as a first timer in Game 9, was an exception).

    As to the "more active than usual = mafia" musings, Nut will tell you that just about everyone posts less as mafia. It strikes me as being very true at ITH and I'm sure Nutjob has observed it at other venues.
  4.  
    One further comment about the hierarchy of NK priorities in this game...

    I'd be shocked if either pack or KT were mobbed and I believe they have formed a little circle of trust. I'd think that breaking up that duo would be more important than removing one of Bugs/San.

    I'm guessing KT takes the NK in the next night phase as she is the most trusted.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Hey Pizza ... have to agree with you on the stifling bit; I think thew got tied up a little, in retrospect, his posts are quite short and sort of trail off. I wonder if he had any idea of who his mate was; he spent most of his time voting for Wes. Actually looking at the voting patterns, he was on No one, Wes, Wes but hardly anyone was moving around; except for Bugs and San. And even they moved around less than normal, I think.
  5.  
    "posts less as mafia"

    On more than one occasion, I noted that Cyb was posting more than I would expect him to as a mafia but I just couldn't work myself free from the hangups I was having with what I perceived to be a suspicious tone in his posts.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:One further comment about the hierarchy of NK priorities in this game...

    I'd be shocked if either pack or KT were mobbed and I believe they have formed a little circle of trust. I'd think that breaking up that duo would be more important than removing one of Bugs/San.

    I'm guessing KT takes the NK in the next night phase as she is the most trusted.


    Not sure, I think I would rather take out Pack and leave KT to try to sort out why San and Bugs are still both in the game.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:"posts less as mafia"

    On more than one occasion, I noted that Cyb was posting more than I would expect him to as a mafia but I just couldn't work myself free from the hangups I was having with what I perceived to be a suspicious tone in his posts.


    I'm not sure why but Cyb never set off any bells at all in this game, MX, however, did from Day ! but I'd be damned if I could tell you why :shamed:
  6.  
    janeg:Hey Pizza ... have to agree with you on the stifling bit; I think thew got tied up a little, in retrospect, his posts are quite short and sort of trail off. I wonder if he had any idea of who his mate was; he spent most of his time voting for Wes. Actually looking at the voting patterns, he was on No one, Wes, Wes but hardly anyone was moving around; except for Bugs and San. And even they moved around less than normal, I think.


    That might be another reason for thew to hang back is that you wouldn't want to start a ball rolling on someone that might actually turn out to be your partner.

    Just like you, as a wolf in #13, did have some fun because you still had mafia to hunt....the majority of thew's comments/votes toward wes were part of a wolf hunt which he was free to pursue with sincerity and without fear to his team. The removal of the wolf on the night MX was hit was a setback for thew becuase he has to come up with a new tack to take in his posts. That might have been part of why he was so quiet there on the day Cyb got lynched.
  7.  
    janeg:
    pizzabynight:"posts less as mafia"

    On more than one occasion, I noted that Cyb was posting more than I would expect him to as a mafia but I just couldn't work myself free from the hangups I was having with what I perceived to be a suspicious tone in his posts.


    I'm not sure why but Cyb never set off any bells at all in this game, MX, however, did from Day ! but I'd be damned if I could tell you why :shamed:


    Pat yourself on the back that your instincts were working well...they can play an important role in these games and at the poker table.

    Of course, next time you find me suspicious you'll just cackle....


    "But Pizza, you told me to trust my instincts.:tongue:"
    • CommentAuthorMXRider
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Hey all, just saw this was opened. Damn you mafia! I was quite surprised by that hit as I appeared to be a very good lynching candidate for the next day and everyone was saying I was off and could easily have been the other mafia.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    MXRider:Hey all, just saw this was opened. Damn you mafia! I was quite surprised by that hit as I appeared to be a very good lynching candidate for the next day and everyone was saying I was off and could easily have been the other mafia.


    Hi Mx ... I think the hit surprised everyone, and it was one of the main reasons I suspected (suspect) San. Who else would read you that well? 'course, it could have just been a misplay by the mob and they got lucky. Did you hit Nut because you thought he'd sniffed you out?
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:
    janeg:
    pizzabynight:"posts less as mafia"

    On more than one occasion, I noted that Cyb was posting more than I would expect him to as a mafia but I just couldn't work myself free from the hangups I was having with what I perceived to be a suspicious tone in his posts.


    I'm not sure why but Cyb never set off any bells at all in this game, MX, however, did from Day ! but I'd be damned if I could tell you why :shamed:


    Pat yourself on the back that your instincts were working well...they can play an important role in these games and at the poker table.

    Of course, next time you find me suspicious you'll just cackle....


    "But Pizza, you told me to trust my instincts.:tongue:"


    I am resolved to compeletly ignore you in all future games, by Pizza-meter, it if ever existed, is completely broken :)
  8.  
    KT at 12:37p: "I actually think Fojar lis looking more like a baddie than Wes."

    At least 2 out of the trio of San/Bugs/KT are innocent, if not all 3. It's frustrating to see them dumping their votes on fojar without, as far as I can see, giving him much of a hard look. [Edit: Whoops....KT hasn't actually voted there.:smile:]

    When a player rolls up his sleeves and is doing analytical work like the kind he was doing with the analysis of all the votes from the first 3 days and whether they were easy or not, it's usually a sign of innocence. KT should give that the same weight that she asks us to give to, say, her TRK analysis in the Kingmaker game.

    He's also posted more in this game than usual (perhaps only #18 when he was the Deputy exceeds it)...or at least matching the form he had in #23 when he was the Detective.

    Also, his tone jived with mine but that's more of a personal thing. Every player has to judge tone for himself.
  9.  
    MXRider:Hey all, just saw this was opened. Damn you mafia! I was quite surprised by that hit as I appeared to be a very good lynching candidate for the next day and everyone was saying I was off and could easily have been the other mafia.


    A great surprise....but a pleasant one !!:cool:
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Looks like you spoke to eary Pizza ... KT has here vote on Fojar. I'll be surprised if he's dirty.
  10.  
    Earlier, I said that I expected KT to be the next nightkill.

    But let's say that fojar is lynched, found innocent, and that your name is badboywes and that you're the last mobster....

    Looking at a roster of

    Bugsbunny
    KT
    packone
    San

    Who do you take out if you're Wes and why ?
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    If it's Wes, I think he takes out San. I don't think he's ever gone head to head with Bugs, I think he'd relish the chance.
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    OK I'm here I think the remaining mafia have got to be either Bugs or San.

    BTW, This is my 4th game and I have been really want to be mafia. Yet in this I was just as confused as anyone else not knowing who my den mates where.
    Plus I really have been real busy this week and I got really behind in this game. I could of save my self yesterday if I could of been around.
  11.  
    The reason I brought it up was my earlier speculation that KT would be the next NK....I got to wondering if wes was mobbed, that he might see her as a potential ally and leave her in. Sooo...if KT was taken out, it might be a sign someone else was in the Den but there's no way that could carry any farther than just being on a wild hunch level.
  12.  
    Thew92:OK I'm here I think the remaining mafia have got to be either Bugs or San.


    When in the game did you start thinking that way or is it a conclusion you've come to after you're dead ?
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:
    Thew92:OK I'm here I think the remaining mafia have got to be either Bugs or San.


    When in the game did you start thinking that way or is it a conclusion you've come to after you're dead ?


    I kept them both at the top of my list and they never seemed to get NK'd
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Night Kill list day 1 & 2
    1.Nutjob
    2. bugsbunny
    3. PizzaByNight
    4. cybrarian
    5. Wes
    6. MXRider
    7. fojar
    8. Janeg
    9. KT
    10.Packone
    12.San
    13. Scully

    This was my N3 list

    1. San
    2. PizzaByNight
    3. KT
    4. bugsbunny
    5. Janeg
    6. Wes
    7. Packone
    8. fojar

    I still think it was odd the MX got NK'd on N2 because he was so far down my list.
  13.  
    Wowzers...thanks for sharing the lists.
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    I was out on date date N2 so I told Wade to just keep it the same.
  14.  
    Thew92:I was out on date date N2 so I told Wade to just keep it the same.


    Nutjob will appreciate that you wanted to make sure that he was doubly dead.:wink:

    But you see, he one-upped you during the RNG, Sir Triply-dead Thew:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    How did MX get hit then? Pure accident, you have him at # 6, does that mean everybody from 1-5 had to be lower on the other mobster's list?
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Well it was really #5 (take NJ and Scully off)so I am guessing my denmate had him at #1 and nothing else really matched up.
  15.  
    Either Bugs is in the mob or somebody particularly wanted Bugs & I around on the night MX got hit.

    Why did you have San so low on Nights 1 & 2 but in first place on Night 3 ?
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:
    Thew92:I was out on date date N2 so I told Wade to just keep it the same.


    Nutjob will appreciate that you wanted to make sure that he was doubly dead.:wink:

    But you see, he one-upped you during the RNG, Sir Triply-dead Thew:bigsmile:


    :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
    • CommentAuthorThew92
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:Either Bugs is in the mob or somebody particularly wanted Bugs & I around on the night MX got hit.

    Why did you have San so low on Nights 1 & 2 but in first place on Night 3 ?


    On N1 & N2 where the same list and I didn't think much about him on Day 1. I didn't have any time on Day 2.
    After I somewhat caught up on day 3 I thought there was a high chance he was Mafia so I put him # 1 (knowing thats its mathmacily imposible to NK if he's mafia). So I was really trying to figure out who my den-mate was.

    I was being truthful in the thread about being busy.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     

    Wes just doesn't seem like a guilty wes, and I can't believe a guilty wes makes no appearance yesterday when he had to know he was at risk. That would be very un-wes like.


    I hope this type of thinking doesn't sink the ship; Wes is very capable of doing a 100% turn around at any point
    • CommentAuthorwade
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Hi all...looks like there's more action in here than the actual game thread today. I'm guessing the lack of posting suits any remaining baddies just fine ;)

    janeg:How did MX get hit then? Pure accident, you have him at # 6, does that mean everybody from 1-5 had to be lower on the other mobster's list?


    All of the NK's have been very close (well, except for yours Jane :surprised:), but there weren't any ties. The remaining mobster did suspect MX was wolf and had him at the top of their list.

    You'll probably get a kick out of your partner's lists Thew, but I won't post them yet.:bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorwade
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Thew92:Well it was really #5 (take NJ and Scully off)so I am guessing my denmate had him at #1 and nothing else really matched up.


    Bingo. Your partner was also in total shock that you were mafia. They were convinced it was someone else.
    • CommentAuthorwade
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    janeg:

    Wes just doesn't seem like a guilty wes, and I can't believe a guilty wes makes no appearance yesterday when he had to know he was at risk. That would be very un-wes like.


    I hope this type of thinking doesn't sink the ship; Wes is very capable of doing a 100% turn around at any point


    I have never been able to read Wes, ever. Just when I think I have a tell on him he does a 180 every time :(
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009 edited
     
    wade:
    janeg:

    Wes just doesn't seem like a guilty wes, and I can't believe a guilty wes makes no appearance yesterday when he had to know he was at risk. That would be very un-wes like.


    I hope this type of thinking doesn't sink the ship; Wes is very capable of doing a 100% turn around at any point


    I have never been able to read Wes, ever. Just when I think I have a tell on him he does a 180 every time :(


    That's what I mean. If he got a sense that acting like a bored, disinsterested inno vs a fiesty inno would give him an edge then i can see him just sitting back, doing nothing and willing to risk an RNG, especially if he had no clue Thew was dirty; he would take a 1 in 3 shot. He shot back into the thread pretty quick so he may have been sitting around waiting for it; there were also 3 hidden during the last 1/2 hour of the voting; my guess is 1 was Pizza, 1 was Thew and the other was Wes.

    Oops Thew said he wasn't around ... so couldn't be him.
  16.  
    San at 3:33p: "Night 3 - Pizza. Had me as very inno."

    I had nothing but comfort for him.

    The funny thing was that in the late night session before Cyb got lynched and I got NKed, I worked through all the players to see who I could put above the line afresh. jane (obv), KT, pack , fojar were put up there. I did some past game for analysis for thew and found a match and put him above the line, pending how he handled the fact that it was now impossible for wes to be the wolf. I had Bugs, Cyb and wes below the line but I never put San anywhere...I didn't have any compelling reasons to put him above the line.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Oh dear, Pack thinks I was warming to San yesterday. I wasn't I just didn't think anyone else would vote for him :(
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Good thing I'm dead, I think I might be doing a 180 on pack today
  17.  
    janeg:Good thing I'm dead, I think I might be doing a 180 on pack today


    How come ?

    For one thing, everyone seems happy to toss fojar to the wind and be done with today except for pack. I'm sure it gives you pause when a consensus develops and the thread seems "too quiet". He's keeping it from being quiet.
    • CommentAuthorwade
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    Yikes, Philly vs Arizona in NFC championship. Sorry Bugs!
  18.  
    LOL @ the Giants fumble with 58 seconds to go...here just take the ball
    • CommentAuthorwade
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    It will be bedlam in PA if it winds up being Pittsburgh-Philly in the superbowl. I'm in Harrisburg, with about a 50/50 split of Eagles and Steelers fans. This place could become a real life ITHica :crazy:
    • CommentAuthorcyb
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:
    As to the "more active than usual = mafia" musings, Nut will tell you that just about everyone posts less as mafia. It strikes me as being very true at ITH and I'm sure Nutjob has observed it at other venues.


    That idea was specific to this game. Because there's no den and no planning, you don't as mafia, have to put an insane amount of effort in to be active. Plus its easier to react and appear spontaneous, so its easier to be a constant presence in the thread. Thew being mafia blew it a little, but i'd be surprised if mafia no 2 has been quiet.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    pizzabynight:
    janeg:Good thing I'm dead, I think I might be doing a 180 on pack today


    How come ?

    For one thing, everyone seems happy to toss fojar to the wind and be done with today except for pack. I'm sure it gives you pause when a consensus develops and the thread seems "too quiet". He's keeping it from being quiet.


    Not so much that, Pack just seems to be hitting 'right note' a litte too hard today
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    lol...I'm even paranoid in the dead thread :wink:
  19.  
    San at 5:48p

    "But there is still a huge focus on wolfism in all his [fojar's] early posts"

    Nah...he started out thinking it would be better to hit mafia first...which would probably not be the mindset of the game's final mobster.

    "And what’s even more worrying, that one slip of the tongue from Jane not only incurred his wrath, but it was enough for him to leave his vote on her…and he says other people are making tenuous votes."

    Nope. Not a "tenuous" [quiet, safe would be more like it] vote by fojar's standard as jane was quite active and likely to push back.
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    It's a bit like the kettle calling the pot black; San has been fixated on wolves the whole game
    • CommentAuthorjaneg
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2009
     
    I also wonder with his Fojar fixation; San is normally bouncing around all over and warning people not to fixate; yet this the 3rd day he's been hounding Fojar ... and most of the time Fojar hasn't been around to answer
  20.  
    San mentions the avatar - right before I died I left a suspect list of Bugs, Thew and Wes and Bugs said "All I'll say is that you should trust your initial instinct". I took it to mean that he was finally answering about the avatar and I responded, "Noted, good sir." I brightened up and decided I would put Bugs down as an inno again but later thought he might just be referring to my persistent feelings abut cyb when he referred to "instincts." Course I would not return to the gamethread to find out which.